Does the 42 months in Rev. 11:2b and the 1260 days of Rev. 11:3 equal 3 1/2 years?

My NIV Study Bible, in its notes on Revelation 11:2b-3 says of the 42 months that ”[t]hese are months of 30 days (42 months x 30 days = 1,260 days).” And equates the 42 months in verse 2b with the 1260 days in verse 3, calling both 3 1/2 years

I’ll start off saying that the word of God is infallible, at least to the extent that the translation is accurate, a Bible’s notes or comments are not, and that any human endeavor is fallible.

Someone suggested that I do the math, i.e., that 12 months @ 30 days each equally 360 days and therefore the 42 months  discussed at Rev. 11:2b and the 1260 days discussed in the next verse are the same and both are referring to 3 ½ years. The NIV, nor any place else I’ve found explains this theory, it seems incredible to me. You decide!

Facts:

1.                  We know that John was on the Isle of Patmos. (Rev. 1:9)

2.                  I assume, with a high degree of certainty, that this is the Greek Island in the Aegean Sea by the same name. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patmos)

3.                  We can assume that Revelation was written at some time after Jesus’ death, to a near certain fact, though we can not know when.

4.                  We know, with a high degree of certainty, that there was a Jewish Religious Calendar in use at the time, with 12 months comprised of either 29 days or 30 days (not a 360 day year). ([“Years are either 12 or 13 months, corresponding to the 12.4 month solar cycle”] see http://www.jewfaq.org/calendar.htm & http://www.jewfaq.org/calendr2.htm, a hopelessly inaccurate calendar, hence the need for some 13 month years)

5.                  And, we know with a great degree of certainty that there was a Roman civil calendar (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_calendar, a much more accurate calendar, though not perfect) in use on Patmos when John received his revelation. (see http://www.wdbydana.com/patmos.htm)

6.                  We can calculate with certainty that, by use of either of these calendars, 1260 days does not equal 42 full months, nor vice-versa.

I was told to do the math. When I do your math I come up with a 360 day year (12 x 30 = 360 x 3 ½ = 1260 days notes in my NIV Study Bible (2002) p. 1978 or notes for Rev. 11:2-3), The problem is that one cannot come to this conclusion based on any calendar that was in use at the time, at least one that’s known to me. A solar calendar, by definition, is based on the Earth's trip around the Sun, which takes approximately 356.24220 days to complete (see http://www.answers.com/topic/solar-calendar-2) , this is the science behind a solar calendar, the Julian Calendar has a rigid 356.24 days, which after centuries of use gets it off track. A 360 day calendar is not a solar calendar, nor is it as lunar calendar. The Jewish calendar had somewhere in the neighborhood of 355 days to its year, with some months having either 29 or 30 day (Cheshvan & Kislev adding the leap month of Adar (29 days) in leap years. (see http://www.jewfaq.org/calendar.htm)

There is no mention in Revelation of the 42 months (Rev. 11:2b) being 3 1/2 years. Based on any solar calendar it cannot be, that is simply fallible human assumption. There is also no mention at verse Rev. 11:3 that the 1260 days is 3 1/2 years, that too is fallible human assumption, and too is the human assumption that the two are referring to the same time period. We cannot tell by the scripture if the 42 months and the 1260 days run concurrently , consecutively, far apart (in time) from one another, overlapping one another with different start dates, or operate one to the other on some other configuration.

While we can know, with a large degree of certainty, that the 1260 days referred to thereat was the same in John’s time as it is in our own (1 day equaling the Earth’s orbit on its axis), we cannot know to how many days the 42 months is referring. If Jesus was referring to 42 months on the Jewish calendar in use at the time, that would not be 1260 days, if Jesus was referring to the Julian Calendar (see http://www.answers.com/topic/solar-calendar-2) in use on Patmos at the time the revelation was given to John, that too would not be 1260 days (a not so accurate solar calendar based on a 365.25 day year), if Jesus was referring to 42 months each 30 days long where’s the proof, Biblical or otherwise? Who used this calendar(?), the Jews of the day didn’t, and the Roman’s didn’t, why would John be referring to a 12 month calendar wherein the months are each 30 days long, when he was not using such a calendar in his own life?

To believe (assume) that Jesus is referring to a 360 day year with 12 months of 30 days each, I then have to accept the assumption that He does not know, or at the very least, did not know at the time of the revelation, that it takes the Earth 365.24219 days to travel around the Sun. “A solar year is sometimes called a tropical year and is equal to 365 days, 5 hours, 48 minutes, and 45.51 seconds, or 365.24219 days, in solar time.” (see http://library.thinkquest.org/29033/begin/time.htm) Such an assumption of Jesus I cannot accept, after all, John, the writer of the Gospel by the same name says about Jesus “Through Him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.” (John 1:3 NIV) If this is true, and I believe that it is, then Jesus knows how long it takes the Earth to make one trip around the Sun, and that a year is not 360 days long.

Christians are free to assume whatever they desire, I don't freely assume about God's infallible Word, because my assumptions are incredibly fallible. Where many Christians are terrified by science, I am not, I use it to God’s advantage.

Is the 42 months and 1260 days talked of at Rev. 11: 2b-3, talking about a 360 day year calendar? Are these two sentences even talking about the period in time and space? Are they talking about 3 1/2 years? You decide. It was Luke that reports that the Bereans checked the “Scriptures every day” (Acts 17:11) to see how accurate Paul was in his preaching. If the Bereans were skeptical of Paul, you can imagine how skeptical I am of modern day preachers. Christians -- you can check this stuff out for yourselves.

Agape’, Ric copyright 2011

These Three Remain, Faith Hope and Love.

That verse goes on to say. "But the greatest of these is love." (1 Cor. 13:13 NIV) Have you ever asked yourself why is love greater than faith(?), after all the Bible says about Abram -- “And he [Abram] believed in (trusted in, relied on, remained steadfast to) the Lord, and He counted it to him as righteousness (right standing with God)” (Gen. 15:6 Amplified Bible [AB]) Abram, before God changed his name to Abraham, was found righteous by Yahweh because Abram believed (had faith in) God and He counted it to him as righteousness. It doesn’t as Abram loved God and it was credited to him as righteousness. Sounds like faith should be the greatest of these three, its listed first, love is listed last! How many of us would hear God’s call and pack-up and leave, with little or no questions? Abram did, did he love God too, yea!

Didn’t Jesus call someone in a similar fashion? Here’s the account – “Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, ‘Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?’” (Mk 10:17 NKJV) “You know the commandments: . . . And he answered . . . ‘Teacher, all these things I have kept from my youth.’” (id. 10:19)

The New Living Translation (NLT) translates Jesus’ response a bit different than most other translations, but I like this translation. It says: “Jesus felt genuine love for this man as he looked at him. ‘You lack only one thing,’ he told him.”

For comparison -- Abram left Harran this way --  “The LORD had said to Abram, ‘Go from your country, your people and your father’s household to the land I will show you.’ . . . So Abram went, as the LORD had told him and Lot went with him. Abram was seventy-five years old when he set out from Harran.” [italics mine] (Gen. 12:1  & 4 NIV)

What did Jesus command the young man of Mark 10:17-24? “One thing you lack: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me.”

What was the young man’s response? “But he was sad at this word, and went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.” (Mk 10:22 NIV)

“²³ Then Jesus looked around and said to His disciples, ‘How hard it is for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God!’ ²⁴ And the disciples were astonished at His words. But Jesus answered again and said to them, ‘Children, how hard it is for those who trust in riches to enter the kingdom of God! ²⁵ It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.’
²⁶ And they were greatly astonished, saying among themselves, ‘Who then can be saved?’” (id. 23-26)

It’s not that Jesus begrudged this young man his riches, for Abraham was rich “I am Abraham’s servant. The LORD has blessed my master abundantly, and he has become wealthy.” (Gen 24:34)

No -- money was not the issue with the rich young man – but, obedience was. We can assume that when God called Abram, he had some material possessions, and that he did not give those up. (see Gen. 12:5 NIV) But, he did totally give up, what was for those days I’m sure, a comfortable life in Harran where his father had settled, in unquestioned obedience to the LORD.

Would I respond unquestioningly? I’m a Gideon sort of man, he too was called by God -- “The LORD turned to him and said, ‘Go in the strength you have and save Israel out of Midian’s hand. Am I not sending you?’”  (Judges 6:14) 

What was Gideon’s response?

¹⁵ “‘Pardon me, my [sic. LORD],’ Gideon replied, [WHAT DID YOU SAY GOD? Come again, and WAIT a minute!] ‘but how can I save Israel? My clan is the weakest in Manasseh, and I am the least in my family.’

 ¹⁶ The LORD answered, ‘I will be with you, and you will strike down all the Midianites, leaving none alive.’” (Judges 6:15-16  CEV)

Did Gideon just get up and go like Abram(?) NO! Was he disobedient(?) it might seem so but what did he do(?)

“¹⁷Gideon said, ‘It's hard to believe that I'm actually talking to the LORD. Please do something so I'll know that you really are the LORD.

    ¹⁸And wait here until I bring you an offering.’ [italics mine]

   ‘All right, I'll wait,’ the LORD answered.

    ¹⁹Gideon went home and killed a young goat, then started boiling the meat. Next, he opened a big sack of flour and made it into thin bread. When the meat was done, he put it in a basket and poured the broth into a clay cooking pot. He took the meat, the broth, and the bread and placed them under the big tree.” (Judges 6 CEV)

Why did Gideon do these things(?), because he loved the LORD. The angle of the LORD had Gideon place the offering on a rock, touched it with his walking stick, the offering was burned up and the angle was gone. What did Gideon say, it’s quite dramatic.

“²²Gideon realized that he had seen one of the LORD's angels.  ‘Oh!’ he moaned. ‘Now I'm going to die.’” (id. 6:22) This is such a descriptive translation, can’t you just see Gideon moaning “Oh” – I’m a dead man.

What did Yahweh say – “²³ Calm down!’ the LORD told Gideon. ‘There's nothing to be afraid of. You're not going to die.’” (id. 6:23) Now isn’t this a great translation? God telling Gideon calm down, don’t be afraid, you’re not a dead man walking.

In response to this assurance of continued life “Gideon built an altar for worshiping the LORD and called it ‘The LORD Calms Our Fears.’” (id. 6:24) Did he now go out an obey the LORD, NO! “^36-37Gideon prayed to God, ‘I know that you promised to help me rescue Israel, but I need proof. Tonight I'll put some wool on the stone floor of that threshing-place over there. If you really will help me rescue Israel, then tomorrow morning let there be dew on the wool, but let the stone floor be dry.’ And that’s just what happened.” (id. 6:36-38a) Still, Gideon did not obey the LORD. “³⁹But Gideon prayed to God again. ‘Don't be angry at me,’ Gideon said. ‘Let me try this just one more time, so I'll really be sure you'll help me. Only this time, let the wool be dry and the stone floor be wet with dew.’

    ⁴⁰That night, God made the stone floor wet with dew, but he kept the wool dry.” (id. 6:38-40)

Can we question God and love Him? For sure, Abraham negotiated with GOD’s 50 righteous people to save Sodom and Gomorrah down to 10, in a number of exchanges back and forth, but he negotiated in a loving and respectful way, as did Gideon, as did Moses in Exodus.

We Christians want to think long and hard before we are outright disobedient to God, and when we negotiate, we are called to do it in love, not only with God, but with our neighbor too, even with our enemies. (Mt. 5:44)

As Christians we are called to do all thing to the glory of God (1 Cor. 10:31) in love. (1 Cor. Chapter 13) “If I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.” (1 Cor. 13:2b) And, I’d add that I’d have nothing either, including true faith.

Agape’, Ric copyright 2011

Is Our Saturday God's Sabbath ?

Is Our Modern Saturday God’s Sabbath?

Most of the time no, sometimes yes. Is anyone going to actually follow God’s law on the Sabbath? To do so is exceedingly hard in modern life.

For an excellent and dramatic video on this matter go to You Tube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU34hpA91iE

For a study of the Jewish Calendar go to http://www.bible-history.com/jewishyear/index.html and click the various links, go too to http://www.bible-history.com/ to do in-depth research.

Decide for yourself!

One cannot properly worship God on every modern Saturday or Sunday as God’s Sabbath, or any other regular day of our calendar because, we go by the Gregorian Calendar, and not the ancient Jewish lunar calendar. Though no doubt ancient Jews followed the lunar calendar, we do not.

God said:

“By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.” (Gen. 2:2-3 NIV)

In the account above God is not talking about the Jews, this was hundreds, perhaps billions of years before God called Abram, known latter as Abraham, who fathered the Jewish people.

Moses told the Israelites: “Six days you are to gather it [manna], but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will not be any.” (Ex 16:26 NIV)

On our calendar, which is as stated above, the Gregorian calendar, Saturday is the 7^th day of the week, but this is not the ancient Jewish Calendar. On the Gregorian calendar there are seven months with 31 days (Jan., Mar., May, July, Aug., Oct. and Dec.); four with 30 days (April, June, Sep. and Nov.), and February has either 28 day or, on leap year, 29. This is not the lunar calendar used by ancient Jews. They used the lunar calendar, comprised of 12 months of either 29 or 30 days each, and the month began at the new moon. What they did with the extra days in a year, I have no idea, I’ve not studied it that deeply.

(Added Jan. 29, 2011 -- I've since learned that some years had, and still have, 13 months, a leap month added every few years making their leap year, instead of a leap day every four years like our Gregorian Calendar, for our leap year. I have since found a Christian site that promote a 12 month year of 30 days each, equaling a 360 day year -- see http://www.crivoice.org/calendar.html -- but the Jewish sites – see http://www.jewfaq.org/calendar.htm -- do not seem to support this rendition of their calendar, I personally would use a Jewish source on their ancient calendar, you choose.)

As a Christian, what I do know is that this is not the way we calculate the seventh day of the week by the Gregorian Calendar. In Biblical times, the High Priest would set the first day of the month, by the new moon, and that would start the seven day cycle for that month, whether a 29 day month or a 30 day month. . (see http://www.bible-history.com/jewishyear/jewishyear_the_month.html)

(Added Jan. 29, 2011 – I’ve also learned that the High Priest would call the sliver of moon known as the “new moon” at sun-set, or evening twilight, when it was first visible, I believe that this is why the Israelites’ day started at sunset, which is unlike ours which starts at a nano-second past midnight or God’s rendition of the day which starts a first light. Gen. 1:5b “And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.” NIV © 2011, the first day ended at first light on the second day)

Our January 2011 is an ancient Jewish 29 day month -- January 4, 2011 (January’s new moon) to February 2, 2011 the next new moon – which, in ancient times, started the next Jewish month. January 4^th to February 1^st equals 29 days. Their next month would run from our February 2, 2011 to March 3, 2011, a 30 day month. April 4^th would start the next month and so on. In our January 2011, God’s Sabbath falls on each Monday, in February it falls on each Tuesday by our calendar, Wed. the 2^nd being the new moon; in our March God’s Sabbath falls on Thursday all month long, Friday the 4^th being the new moon; in April new moon's on Sunday the 3^rd making Saturdays God’s Sabbath, in May the new moon is Tuesday the 3^rd, making Mondays God’s Sabbath, in June the new moon falls on Wednesday the 1^st, making Tuesdays the Sabbath, in July our first new moon in July falls on Friday the July 1^st making the Sabbath Thursdays, the next new moon in 2011 falls on Saturday, July 30, 2011, making the Sabbath in our August Fridays, the next new moon falls on Sunday, August 28, 2011, causing God’s Sabbath to fall on Saturdays in September, Tuesday, September 27, 2011 is the next new moon making October’s Sabbath on Mondays the next new moon is Wednesday, October 26, 2011, making the Sabbath fall on Tuesdays in our November 2011, the next new moon is on Friday, November 25, 2011, making Thursdays God’s Sabbath in our December 2011, the next new moon is on Saturday, December 24, 2011, making this day a new month, and by out calendar, a new year.

(Added Jan. 29, 2011 – I’m not a calendar scholar so at this time, if I learn I will update this blog, I do not know if our modern calendars adds the new moon on the day that it first appears in that day’s evening sky, or if we consider the new moon day to be the day after we first see the new moon in the sky the evening before, this also makes a difference to “God’s Sabbath”.)

This would be the new year by our calendar, but, again, the ancient Jewish new year started on the first new moon of spring, and their year was many days short of the Earth's trip around the Sun. What happened if the new moon was obscured by clouds, smoke or something else, I guess they corrected it the next month, if they were wrong that month, I’m a Christian and don’t need to study the ancient Jewish calendar that deeply, but, of course, any mistake in the new moon affected the next month, either lengthening or shortening it from the 29 or 30 day cycle, they did always know that the next new moon was coming in either 29 or 30 days later, what the ancient Jews did with the rest of the days of the year I don’t know, but they had to incorporate them somehow (added Jan. 29, 2011 they had a leap year, like us, but unlike us -- with a thirteenth month -- see http://www.jewfaq.org/calendar.htm). Are there any scholars out there on the ancient Jewish calendar that knows? If there are please let me know. In 2011 the ancient Jewish calendar would be, as I calculate it, 10 days short of the Earth’s orbit around the Sun. They had to incorporate them somehow each year, or their spring would get way off after just a few years.

Ancient Jews could figure exactly the Summer and Winter solstices, (as could most ancient peoples) the Summer solstice being that day wherein the sun is at its highest and is the longest day of the year and the Winter solstice wherein the Sun is at its lowest and is the shortest day of the year, but I don't know if they had any significance in ancient Jewish life. Now, I’m not an expert, but I’m sure it was much harder for them to figure out the spring and autumn equinoxes, the two days out of the year that the night and day are approximately equal. (see http://www.answers.com/topic/equinox)

(Added Jan. 29, 2011 certainly they could figure out within a day or so which days these were, but without accurate clocks it seem a bit hard to do, I’ve never tried living by a sundial, perhaps they could do it with one. They are north of the Equator about equal with the panhandle of Florida – see http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=jerusalem+israel&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Jerusalem,+Israel&gl=us&ei=RsUqTJHPIZPknAeyuuTVDg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ8gEwAA )

Christians, you cannot follow God Sabbath by the Gregorian calendar, it is not possible, you cannot even follow God's Sabbath by our new moon cycles found on many modern calendars. The first of the month was controlled by the new moon, but the Jewish High Priest announced that day, no Christian can!

(Added Jan. 29, 2011 --  another thing to remember is that our Saturday starts just after Friday’s midnight, their 7^th day, i.e., Sabbath, started at sunset on the evening of the 6^th day. Our Saturday starts at exactly the same time each week, their Sabbath started at sun-set, on what we call Friday, and the start of their Sabbath varied every week, it started much later in summer and much earlier in the winter. Believe it or not, there’s another thing to consider, our Saturday is exactly the same length every day – see http://www.universetoday.com/14700/how-long-is-a-day-on-earth/ their Sabbath day was set simply by the setting of the sun on our Friday and the next setting on our Saturday, a bit less accurate that our modern day calculation of 23 hours, 56 minutes and 4seconds, how are the extra three minutes and 56 seconds made up, it gets complicated, but that is corrected by the Earth’s orbit around the Sun, Ancient Israel did not calculate to this degree of accuracy. Really, it’s more complicated than the foregoing because they did not use a solar calendar, they used a lunar calendar. The foregoing is based on a seemingly very accurate solar calendar, but is it accurate after many, many millennia(?) – see http://www.bdm.id.au/calendar/leap_year_calculation.html )

Agape, Ric copyright 2011

Should Christians preach Jesus everywhere we go?

Saint Francis said something to the effect -- Preach Jesus everywhere you go, and when necessary use words -- or -- Preach the Gospel; use words if necessary --. Does this mean to use words only if necessary? – NO! It means to edify Christ at every reasonable opportunity with words, but act CHRIST like in everything you do.

In today’s world, certainly more so than in St. Francis’ time, Christians go everywhere in the world, can they preach Gospel words at every encounter with another person(?) – NO! It’s not humanly possible, especially in today’s world with our modern travel. Can they present a Christ like demeanor everywhere they go(?) – YES! At the very least we are called to endeavor to do so, even if we fail sometimes.

Is St Francis' admonition limited to the actual physical places we go(?) – NO! In his day he was pretty much talking about the physical places Christian’s went. St Francis could go somewhere where he was not physically present by written word, or he could send word by way of another person. Today, Christian’s have many encounters with other people all around the world, by many means other than a physical encounter by physically being there or physically going there. The other day I called on my No. California, USA -- DSL service and got a service representative in India, I wasn’t physically there, but, within in the meaning of -- Preach Jesus everywhere I go --, I was there, and I had an obligation to conduct myself in a Christ like manner.

Now, you’d think that this would be easy to do, well, on the first call it was exceedingly easy to do, but, you see, there was nothing wrong with my DSL phone line service, and it was not until after several calls, over a few day, maybe 2 or 3 or 4 hours on the phone over several days, did I realize that it was not my DSL service at all, but rather, that my DSL modem was shot. You see, we live kinda out in the boonies, in a town of about 5,700, it had started to rain and when it rains we usually have trouble with our phone service, so when the DSL started to act up shortly thereafter I thought it was the DSL phone line and didn’t give it a thought that it might be my couple of years old DSL modem instead.

When I called the first time, it took 20 or 30 minutes to get our internet service up and running again, well, it didn’t last very long, and the internet was out again, and again, and again, etc. I called again, and we got it going again. This went on for several days (2 or 3 or 4, I didn’t keep track).  After a few days of doing this, and several calls (8 to 10 perhaps) each time I’d unplug the modem and plug it in again to reset the modem the power light on the modem lit-up fine until near the end when it would barely light up, this was my first clue that the problem was probably caused by our hardware failure and not the phone company’s phone line service. I don’t think that I mortified Jesus with the tech-support people in India, but it was tough to be Christ like when I was angry at the phone company because of the lousy service they provided me because I live in the boonies (of course, in reality they had nothing to do with it). I went down and got a new modem and our internet service has been working fine ever since, the condition of the phone line (apparently good) notwithstanding.

For the purposes of Saint Francis’ admonition, you can look at it two ways, either I was in India with the tech-support people by my phone call, or they were here, either way, did I preach words(?) no, did I act Christ like, I tried and I hope that I did, if I didn’t, Jesus forgive me, Amen. Did they know that I was Christian, I don’t think so, did I have an opportunity to proselytize Jesus with spoken words to the tech-persons on the other end of the phone, not realistically, but I did have the opportunity to pray for those several persons over in India, did I take advantage of this opportunity, NO! In this I embarrassed Jesus, and missed my opportunity then to engage the work of the Holy Spirit in their lives. Please Jesus, work the miracle of preparing the hearts of the tech-people that I talked to a few weeks ago regarding my DSL service for salvation, then bring someone into their lives to preach with words the Gospel of eternal life with the Trinity, through Jesus alone.  In Your name, Amen.

How many opportunities a day do we have to preach Jesus to people through prayer, ten, twenty, thirty(?), easily.  As Christians we can pray, in a single prayer, for, in the neighborhood of, 4.5 to 5 billion lost souls around the world. Lead us to do it Jesus, Amen

I don't have any idea how many people I will reach with this blog, it is really up to the Holy Spirit of God Himself to cause this to happen. I believe that His Holy Spirit calls me to write this blog and turn the rest over to him, to His glory alone. "So, . . . whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God." [bolding mine] 1 Cor. 10:31, NIV We Christians are called to never embarrass Jesus in everything we do.

Agape, Ric copyright 2011